Curse

Sir Cusfreak · Jun 19, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

reading back through this thread, half of it translates directly to "waaah, waaah, waaah" - but, that happens with every single move they make, so its no surprise.

bringing some life to spirit-spammin builds wasnt a bad thing folks.
QWITCHER-KWWYYIINN

There's some potential here for some skill combo's that might actually be *gasp* FUN to play with...

Or, if you dont think thats fun, then *double gasp* dont play it.

If you dont like it - well, it's done, so, too bad

Thanks, ANET, for continuing to put some effort into changes, whatever they may be. Personally, I like most of these changes, keep 'em coming.

Bargamer · Jun 19, 2009, 08:14 PM // 20:14

*The Minion Bomber wonders what's going on?*

Seriously though, good first half-step Anet, now keep buffing Rits more!

Keira Nightgale · Jun 19, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

So I wanted to laugh a bit and went in hard mode with my rit, of course I wanted to use spirits because everyone loves them.

I loaded 14 in communing and 13 in spawning, armor of unfeeling, shelter, union, displacement, reclaim essence, boon of creation, summon spirit and spirit gift. I added some heroes and henches, went in HM and exited TOA because I wanted to pawn some of the mesmer mobs outside. I put armor of unfeeling on, casted my spirits and aggroed because after having casted the spirits I didn't have anything else to do, no slot and a bad attribute spread. Spirits lasted about 3 seconds even despite the fact I casted summon spirits to heal them.
I logged on my paragon, same heroes and henches setup, same area in HM, save yourself and TNTF worked better, well spirits didn't work at all of course paragon was going to work better.
Then I said, let's try the offensive spirits but signet of spirits summons do not work, sadly

.
Do the spirit buff justify the nerf on weapon spells? No, the tradeoff is bad, what is this shit, spirits suck.
Therefore at least for me the spirits are viable argument is nil.

End

Joseph Spiritmaster · Jun 19, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

So I wanted to laugh a bit and went in hard mode with my rit, of course I wanted to use spirits because everyone loves them.

I loaded 14 in communing and 13 in spawning, armor of unfeeling, shelter, union, displacement, reclaim essence, boon of creation, summon spirit and spirit gift. I added some heroes and henches, went in HM and exited TOA because I wanted to pawn some of the mesmer mobs outside. I put armor of unfeeling on, casted my spirits and aggroed because after having casted the spirits I didn't have anything else to do, no slot and a bad attribute spread. Spirits lasted about 3 seconds even despite the fact I casted summon spirits to heal them.
I logged on my paragon, same heroes and henches setup, same area in HM, save yourself and TNTF worked better, well spirits didn't work at all of course paragon was going to work better.
Then I said, let's try the offensive spirits but signet of spirits summons do not work, sadly

.
Do the spirit buff justify the nerf on weapon spells? No, the tradeoff is bad, what is this shit, spirits suck.
Therefore at least for me the spirits are viable argument is nil.

End

Well your issue is that you need to cast spirits, then use armor of unfeeling :-)

In the immortal words of (i think Larry the Cable guy or Adam Savage). Well theres your problem!

Keira Nightgale · Jun 19, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Spiritmaster

Well your issue is that you need to cast spirits, then use armor of unfeeling :-)

In the immortal words of (i think Larry the Cable guy or Adam Savage). Well theres your problem!

Done that as well, doesn't work anyway. The new attack spirits don't work either. Anet surprised me, they made ritualist even worse than they were

Improvavel · Jun 19, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

WoW Keira.

So before you used Channeling + Resto. Best skills of rit ancestors rage, splinters weapon, OoS, etc.

What do you do now?

You go out and play communing + spawning.

It just seems to me you are trying to make the changes look bad.

Joseph Spiritmaster · Jun 19, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

WoW Keira.

So before you used Channeling + Resto. Best skills of rit ancestors rage, splinters weapon, OoS, etc.

What do you do now?

You go out and play communing + spawning.

It just seems to me you are trying to make the changes look bad.

lol /agree

But yea, then something happened when you caster the spirits the armor... you sure you were in earshot... yea i mean i know they shouldnt last long in HM cause ANet just wreaked the spirits, but hey my union can last twice as long now even with the heavy agro and with armor of unfeeling soo yeah, your just doin something wrong if you say it doesnt do anything.

English Warrior · Jun 19, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

You do understand that when you use SoS and Feast of Souls with Life it can heal for 400hp, if a class can give a 400hp heal party wide every 10 sec and a 300 every 10 sec, i think that's a pretty good buff imo.

Airstu · Jun 20, 2009, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Done that as well, doesn't work anyway. The new attack spirits don't work either. Anet surprised me, they made ritualist even worse than they were

might I suggest a solution to your gameplay problems?

Longasc · Jun 20, 2009, 10:04 AM // 10:04

The Update is just showing that they lost the concept of balance:

PvP: Nothing changed, maybe even to the worse
PvE: They are now superviable, aka overbuffed

Spirit Spam just rocks. 3 Ritualists without heroes or henchies made it to Fendi Nin, thanks to Signet of Spirits and Spirit Spam. And that even with Spirits having targetting/attacking issues (Basically, the 3 guys are programmed not to focus down a single target, and if there are less than 3 targets only one bothers to attack occasionally).

Balance is out of whack, they just shifted to the other extreme. The intention was, as usual, honorable, the execution as always flawed.

Give your Heroes the Signet, combine with some Necroes, it does not get ANY easier. And never was easier to wtfpwn in PvE before.

Frisian · Jun 20, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49

I don't see how people whine about a buff.
The buff has done nothing but good to the whole profession.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates

As you see, the weapon spells have been nerfed slightly and the spirits have been improved big-time in PvE. Also there are some skill changes to the Spawning Power line to make it more interesting.

Myself, I'm using an epic healer build that is equal to a WoH monk, and with the buff it has grown even better

12+1 Restoration Magic
12+1+3 Spawning Power

Spirit Light - Soothing Memories - Mend Body and Soul - Remove Hex - Draw Spirit - Preservation - Energetic Was Lee Sa - Flesh of My Flesh

With the buff on Preservation I can spawn it without worrying that an ally might die whilst I'm casting.

I don't see this being overpowered in PvE, just the one who abuse the class are idiots. Luckily the hype will fade away in a month, I'm quite sure, too bad ArenaNet does not see that and will nerf them even worse than that they were before.

Lyphen · Jun 20, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisian

12+1 Restoration Magic
12+1+3 Spawning Power

Spirit Light - Soothing Memories - Mend Body and Soul - Remove Hex - Draw Spirit - Preservation - Energetic Was Lee Sa - Flesh of My Flesh

Might I ask: why all the points in Spawning Power?

upier · Jun 21, 2009, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyphen

Might I ask: why all the points in Spawning Power?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisian

12+1 Restoration Magic
12+1+3 Spawning Power

Spirit Light - Soothing Memories - Mend Body and Soul - Remove Hex - Draw Spirit - Preservation - Energetic Was Lee Sa - Flesh of My Flesh

A waste nonetheless.

Frisian · Jun 21, 2009, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

A waste nonetheless.

It works fine for me, no chance I run out of energy, yet I might reconsider using the superior rune.

What I have seen today is that many people suddenly start playing a Ritualist because of Signet of Spirits, not giving a shit about other builds at all.
I'm afraid that this will be as overused as Permasin if people find out a way to use the spirits in a farming build.

Einherj3r · Jun 21, 2009, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisian

It works fine for me, no chance I run out of energy, yet I might reconsider using the superior rune.

What I have seen today is that many people suddenly start playing a Ritualist because of Signet of Spirits, not giving a shit about other builds at all.
I'm afraid that this will be as overused as Permasin if people find out a way to use the spirits in a farming build.

Cause thats pretty much the only build that has been made more viable with the update. This and that this update dumbed down spirits in PvE are the real problems. One of the Ritualist's primary game mechanics suddenly bears no gameplay importance at all anymore. Why should I play a Ritualist if my spirits get cast almost instantly and I don't have to take care about them anymore?
It's like a <insert caster class> that has to spend a skill slot for something that enables him to be nearly on-par with other caster classes but doesn't really get that much of it.

ArianeB · Jun 21, 2009, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

Spirits suck by default, add to that that it is an elite, on top of that you need spawning power to have a decent health level, you do the math.

Problem is simple, most useful ritualist's skills are: OoS, warding, Splinter, Ancestor, Kaolai, Xinrae weapon.
Outside of these lies a desolated waste. Is signet of spirits so good to justify taking it instead of Xinrae or OoS? No.

Actually the answer is Yes. Or, more accurately HELL YES!

Signet of Spirits has just become the class defining elite, similar to Barrage for Rangers, Spiteful Spirit for Necros, and Visions of Regret for Mesmers.

I run 11 restoration, 13 channeling, and 11 spawning. The three skills you should have nailed to your bar are Spirit's Gift, Signet of Spirits, and Feast of Souls in that order, because that is the order to use them. Keep Spirit's Gift up, and launch SoS once you lured the bad guys in and they started to do some damage. If your party needs more health, Feast of Souls followed by SoS again = 400 party wide health (each!) plus condition removal.

Yes, Signet of Spirits is not a big damage dealer, but you can make up for it by dropping a monk in your party for an Ele.

Was running through EotN with this build, and having a lot of fun. Also tried some of the solo quests. In the Norn Tournament I was kicking butt until Argo and his stupid Sandstorm AoE.

Add WoW Spirit Light and your favorite Rez, and you can match any Monk.

Lyphen · Jun 21, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisian

It works fine for me, no chance I run out of energy, yet I might reconsider using the superior rune.

What I have seen today is that many people suddenly start playing a Ritualist because of Signet of Spirits, not giving a shit about other builds at all.
I'm afraid that this will be as overused as Permasin if people find out a way to use the spirits in a farming build.

Well, not to jab, but it's primarily because it's the only change that really could affect most ritualist builds. I removed Weapon of Warding and Offering of Spirit from my normal build, to add Signet of Spirits and Spirit Siphon (Basicaly a 3x OoS combo every 20 seconds).

You build hasn't really changed in effectiveness since the update, beyond giving Preservation more HP. I'd recommend looking into the Channeling line. Finding a way to add Splinter Weapon, Life and Spirit Siphon, since you're have two spirits to sap.

Coast · Jun 22, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

Simple facts, when people said mesmer suck in pve they weren't fully right.
Sure, domination used to be terrible in pve, usually you don't need to diversion a monk in pve because by the time it takes effect the mob will be dead. But mesmers had the fair advantage of

A having a primary that actually does something
B having useful skills
C Being Izzy's fetish, they were given some fun pve only skills
D Always having a role in every form of pvp

When a PUGGER says Ritualists do suck he's actually right

A Their primary sucks
B Most of their skills are useless or nerfed to oblivion
C Their Pve only skills are subpar
D Their role in pvp is nil
E Their special feat (spirits) is a malus rather than a bonus

With a mesmer you can go fast casting ele, play domination, play any kind of gimmick,COP, Condition spreading, interrupt on nasty missions, VOR, fast casting signet.
With a ritualist you don't have this advantage, you either play hybrid or spirits, since spirits suck you were forced to play hybrid or some gimmick (spirits strenght).
Now enter the mentality of the average pugger:

Defensive spirit spam >>>> Paragon is better
Healer >>>>> Monks are better
Offensive Spirits>>>> If you want damage you go ele, necro, mesmer, or add another melee
Hybrid>>>> They are not wanted, if you want a defensive/damage hybrid you either run a Necro, a Renewal Ele, a Motivation Paragon, a smiter Monk.

Anet simply had to make ritualist skills more viable, reducing casting time is a good step but it's like curing skin disease when the guy in front of you is in a bloody pulp, fix the necessary things, then you do the accessory, buffs are not done by buffing an attribute line while nerfing the class as a whole.
Again this update might be just a step, I got the feeling this is going to be the only answer we Ritualist and Paragon players will have (at least paragon fixes were something decent)

stop talking nonsense please
rits
D:their rol in pvp is nil????????????????????? lawl
e: spirits are a malus???? play(properly) before u make a comment

Defensive spirit spam >>>> Paragon is better (explain why paras are better at spiritspam then rits, since thats what u said)
Healer >>>>> Monks are better??? RIGHT...

Jarus · Jun 22, 2009, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianeB

Signet of Spirits has just become the class defining elite, similar to Barrage for Rangers, Spiteful Spirit for Necros, and Visions of Regret for Mesmers.

QFT.

12characters.

Einherj3r · Jun 22, 2009, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

stop talking nonsense please
rits
D:their rol in pvp is nil????????????????????? lawl
e: spirits are a malus???? play(properly) before u make a comment

Defensive spirit spam >>>> Paragon is better (explain why paras are better at spiritspam then rits, since thats what u said)
Healer >>>>> Monks are better??? RIGHT...

I don't completely agree with Keiras post either, but your post is just BOGUS.